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    <title>Software Defined Interviews - Episodes Tagged with “Ai”</title>
    <link>https://www.softwaredefinedinterviews.com/tags/ai</link>
    <pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2026 09:00:00 +0200</pubDate>
    <description>Deep discussions about technology, enterprise IT, and the like</description>
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    <itunes:subtitle>Deep discussions about technology, enterprise IT, and the like</itunes:subtitle>
    <itunes:author>Software Defined Talk</itunes:author>
    <itunes:summary>Deep discussions about technology, enterprise IT, and the like</itunes:summary>
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  <title>Episode 125: Running D&amp;D with AI, Determinism First, and Workflow ROI, with Michael Rishi Forrester</title>
  <link>https://www.softwaredefinedinterviews.com/125</link>
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  <pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2026 09:00:00 +0200</pubDate>
  <author>Software Defined Talk</author>
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  <itunes:episode>125</itunes:episode>
  <itunes:title>Running D&amp;D with AI, Determinism First, and Workflow ROI, with Michael Rishi Forrester</itunes:title>
  <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
  <itunes:author>Software Defined Talk</itunes:author>
  <itunes:subtitle>Michael Rishi Forrester built his son a homebrew tabletop campaign with AI in the loop - 20 hours of work instead of 60 to 100 - and found out the hard way that the model had quietly started doing the dice math itself. That turns into an argument about why individuals get so much value out of AI while organizations get so little, and why the ROI is at the workflow level or nowhere.</itunes:subtitle>
  <itunes:duration>1:13:29</itunes:duration>
  <itunes:explicit>yes</itunes:explicit>
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  <description>&lt;p&gt;Michael Rishi Forrester does AI workforce transformation at Accenture LearnVantage, after three years at KodeKloud and about thirty years in IT before that. Whitney and Coté talk with him about running tabletop role-playing games with AI. He built his 19-year-old son a homebrew campaign on top of Lancer, the sci-fi mech game, in about 20 hours instead of the 60 to 100 it would have taken him before - and got a website, a virtual tabletop and some Discord bots out of it. What breaks is the interesting part: there was a night when every shot did one damage, because the model had quietly stopped using the dice harness and started doing the math itself.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;From there it turns into an argument about where AI actually pays off at work. Michael’s position is that the ROI is at the workflow level and there is no organizational ROI to go find, that read-only work over more information than a person can hold is where it currently earns its keep, and that everything he has had success with is a bound system with a finite rule set. Whitney names the through-line: what can be deterministic should be deterministic, and if you need an LLM, scope it tightly and have it write the deterministic thing.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It ends on mantis shrimp.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You can watch &lt;a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRVtMHbIAR0" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;the video version of this episode&lt;/a&gt; as well, if you prefer that kind of thing.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Mentions:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;  &lt;a href="https://michaelrishiforrester.com/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Michael Rishi Forrester’s home page on the World Wide Web&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;  &lt;a href="https://antiphonthegame.com/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Antiphon: The Game&lt;/a&gt;, the homebrew Lancer campaign - the whole story, the missions, the board, and the sea-creature capital ships.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;  &lt;a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrishiforrester/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Michael on LinkedIn&lt;/a&gt;, where he posts most often.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;  &lt;a href="https://massifpress.com/lancer" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Lancer&lt;/a&gt;, the sci-fi mech game Antiphon is built on top of. Special Guest: Michael Rishi Forrester.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
</description>
  <itunes:keywords>Michael Rishi Forrester, Accenture LearnVantage, KodeKloud, AI workforce transformation, Dungeons &amp; Dragons, Lancer, Antiphon, solo role-playing, tabletop RPG, application harness, determinism first, deterministic wrappers, MCP, Claude Code, agentic AI, hooks, LLM math, dice rolls, human in the loop, Air Force doctrine, intuition, judgment, enterprise ROI, workflow ROI, bound systems, read-only agents, context management, agent parallelism, alert fatigue, SOC 2 compliance, code review, regulated industries, layoffs, developer productivity, MIT Nanda report, Kubernetes, CI/CD, TDD, platform engineering</itunes:keywords>
  <content:encoded>
    <![CDATA[<p>Michael Rishi Forrester does AI workforce transformation at Accenture LearnVantage, after three years at KodeKloud and about thirty years in IT before that. Whitney and Coté talk with him about running tabletop role-playing games with AI. He built his 19-year-old son a homebrew campaign on top of Lancer, the sci-fi mech game, in about 20 hours instead of the 60 to 100 it would have taken him before - and got a website, a virtual tabletop and some Discord bots out of it. What breaks is the interesting part: there was a night when every shot did one damage, because the model had quietly stopped using the dice harness and started doing the math itself.</p>

<p>From there it turns into an argument about where AI actually pays off at work. Michael’s position is that the ROI is at the workflow level and there is no organizational ROI to go find, that read-only work over more information than a person can hold is where it currently earns its keep, and that everything he has had success with is a bound system with a finite rule set. Whitney names the through-line: what can be deterministic should be deterministic, and if you need an LLM, scope it tightly and have it write the deterministic thing.</p>

<p>It ends on mantis shrimp.</p>

<p>You can watch <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRVtMHbIAR0" rel="nofollow noopener">the video version of this episode</a> as well, if you prefer that kind of thing.</p>

<p>Mentions:</p>

<ul>
<li>  <a href="https://michaelrishiforrester.com/" rel="nofollow noopener">Michael Rishi Forrester’s home page on the World Wide Web</a>.</li>
<li>  <a href="https://antiphonthegame.com/" rel="nofollow noopener">Antiphon: The Game</a>, the homebrew Lancer campaign - the whole story, the missions, the board, and the sea-creature capital ships.</li>
<li>  <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrishiforrester/" rel="nofollow noopener">Michael on LinkedIn</a>, where he posts most often.</li>
<li>  <a href="https://massifpress.com/lancer" rel="nofollow noopener">Lancer</a>, the sci-fi mech game Antiphon is built on top of.</li>
</ul><p>Special Guest: Michael Rishi Forrester.</p>]]>
  </content:encoded>
  <itunes:summary>
    <![CDATA[<p>Michael Rishi Forrester does AI workforce transformation at Accenture LearnVantage, after three years at KodeKloud and about thirty years in IT before that. Whitney and Coté talk with him about running tabletop role-playing games with AI. He built his 19-year-old son a homebrew campaign on top of Lancer, the sci-fi mech game, in about 20 hours instead of the 60 to 100 it would have taken him before - and got a website, a virtual tabletop and some Discord bots out of it. What breaks is the interesting part: there was a night when every shot did one damage, because the model had quietly stopped using the dice harness and started doing the math itself.</p>

<p>From there it turns into an argument about where AI actually pays off at work. Michael’s position is that the ROI is at the workflow level and there is no organizational ROI to go find, that read-only work over more information than a person can hold is where it currently earns its keep, and that everything he has had success with is a bound system with a finite rule set. Whitney names the through-line: what can be deterministic should be deterministic, and if you need an LLM, scope it tightly and have it write the deterministic thing.</p>

<p>It ends on mantis shrimp.</p>

<p>You can watch <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRVtMHbIAR0" rel="nofollow noopener">the video version of this episode</a> as well, if you prefer that kind of thing.</p>

<p>Mentions:</p>

<ul>
<li>  <a href="https://michaelrishiforrester.com/" rel="nofollow noopener">Michael Rishi Forrester’s home page on the World Wide Web</a>.</li>
<li>  <a href="https://antiphonthegame.com/" rel="nofollow noopener">Antiphon: The Game</a>, the homebrew Lancer campaign - the whole story, the missions, the board, and the sea-creature capital ships.</li>
<li>  <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrishiforrester/" rel="nofollow noopener">Michael on LinkedIn</a>, where he posts most often.</li>
<li>  <a href="https://massifpress.com/lancer" rel="nofollow noopener">Lancer</a>, the sci-fi mech game Antiphon is built on top of.</li>
</ul><p>Special Guest: Michael Rishi Forrester.</p>]]>
  </itunes:summary>
</item>
<item>
  <title>Episode 124: The Chief Therapy Officer, Job Titles as Culture Change, and AI as Spreadsheets, with Bryan Ross</title>
  <link>https://www.softwaredefinedinterviews.com/124</link>
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  <pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2026 11:00:00 +0200</pubDate>
  <author>Software Defined Talk</author>
  <enclosure url="https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/752ee20c-8e7a-4ce1-8214-0a3fef88215c/a4a2167f-2cb9-4f13-af10-067073382ca9.mp3" length="34023503" type="audio/mpeg"/>
  <itunes:episode>124</itunes:episode>
  <itunes:title>The Chief Therapy Officer, Job Titles as Culture Change, and AI as Spreadsheets, with Bryan Ross</itunes:title>
  <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
  <itunes:author>Software Defined Talk</itunes:author>
  <itunes:subtitle></itunes:subtitle>
  <itunes:duration>1:09:48</itunes:duration>
  <itunes:explicit>yes</itunes:explicit>
  <itunes:image href="https://media24.fireside.fm/file/fireside-images-2024/podcasts/images/7/752ee20c-8e7a-4ce1-8214-0a3fef88215c/episodes/a/a4a2167f-2cb9-4f13-af10-067073382ca9/cover.jpg?v=1"/>
  <description>&lt;p&gt;Bryan Ross is a Field CTO at GitLab, a role he describes as straddling sales, customer success, and solution architecture - or, as one of his customers renamed it, chief therapy officer, which he has since turned into a Substack. Whitney and Coté talk with him about what the job actually looks like: getting catapulted into an account by the sales team, asking a lot of questions, and finding out about four minutes in that the tech problem is a human one. He makes the case that changing job titles - sysadmin, DevOps engineer, platform engineer, now context engineer - is mostly an organization trying to change its culture without knowing how, and that the real difference is mindset: keeping a box alive versus serving one team versus building a product. There’s a long stretch on metrics, including Goodhart’s law, why every metric needs a balancing one, and why he cared more about how many VMs were being decommissioned than how many were being provisioned. Also: whether anyone actually needs to ship faster (Coté’s pharmacy doesn’t), the UK Postal Service discovering that a friendly postman beat a modernized delivery fleet on customer satisfaction, and why copying Google is usually the wrong move. On AI, Bryan’s argument is that it will end up like spreadsheets - a few experts building the macros, everyone else using and lightly tinkering with what they made - and that which model you use should be a finance and data governance decision, not a developer one. Plus the hazard of a nicely formatted report: the pastel-shading trick for spreadsheets nobody will check, and why an AI scoring something 6 out of 10 gets the same unearned benefit of the doubt.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Also, ordering pizza in Amsterdam.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You can watch &lt;a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w184M4RtlIU" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;the video version of this episode&lt;/a&gt; as well, if you prefer that kind of thing.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Mentions:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;  &lt;a href="https://bryanross.me/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Bryan Ross’s home page on the World Wide Web&lt;/a&gt;, which links to everything else.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;  &lt;a href="https://chieftherapyofficer.co.uk/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Chief Therapy Officer&lt;/a&gt;, Bryan’s Substack.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;  &lt;a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanross/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Bryan on LinkedIn&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;  Coté's &lt;a href="https://cote.pizza/shit-people-say/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;list of "laws," anecdotes, and common shit people say&lt;/a&gt;. See also &lt;a href="https://hacker-laws.com/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Hacker Laws&lt;/a&gt;. Special Guest: Bryan Ross.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
</description>
  <itunes:keywords>Bryan Ross, GitLab, field CTO, chief therapy officer, platform engineering, DevOps engineer, job titles, sysadmin, context engineer, Goodhart’s law, metrics, balancing metrics, VM provisioning, decommissioning, repaving, microservices, monolith, LAMP stack, Kubernetes, golden paths, developer velocity, shipping faster, UK Postal Service, customer satisfaction, AI adoption, frontier models, model routing, FinOps for AI, agentic engineering, diffusion of innovations, Conway’s law, non-determinism, CI, coding agents, AI evaluation, tool sprawl, Jenkins, Tanzu, Substack, The New Stack</itunes:keywords>
  <content:encoded>
    <![CDATA[<p>Bryan Ross is a Field CTO at GitLab, a role he describes as straddling sales, customer success, and solution architecture - or, as one of his customers renamed it, chief therapy officer, which he has since turned into a Substack. Whitney and Coté talk with him about what the job actually looks like: getting catapulted into an account by the sales team, asking a lot of questions, and finding out about four minutes in that the tech problem is a human one. He makes the case that changing job titles - sysadmin, DevOps engineer, platform engineer, now context engineer - is mostly an organization trying to change its culture without knowing how, and that the real difference is mindset: keeping a box alive versus serving one team versus building a product. There’s a long stretch on metrics, including Goodhart’s law, why every metric needs a balancing one, and why he cared more about how many VMs were being decommissioned than how many were being provisioned. Also: whether anyone actually needs to ship faster (Coté’s pharmacy doesn’t), the UK Postal Service discovering that a friendly postman beat a modernized delivery fleet on customer satisfaction, and why copying Google is usually the wrong move. On AI, Bryan’s argument is that it will end up like spreadsheets - a few experts building the macros, everyone else using and lightly tinkering with what they made - and that which model you use should be a finance and data governance decision, not a developer one. Plus the hazard of a nicely formatted report: the pastel-shading trick for spreadsheets nobody will check, and why an AI scoring something 6 out of 10 gets the same unearned benefit of the doubt.</p>

<p>Also, ordering pizza in Amsterdam.</p>

<p>You can watch <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w184M4RtlIU" rel="nofollow noopener">the video version of this episode</a> as well, if you prefer that kind of thing.</p>

<p>Mentions:</p>

<ul>
<li>  <a href="https://bryanross.me/" rel="nofollow noopener">Bryan Ross’s home page on the World Wide Web</a>, which links to everything else.</li>
<li>  <a href="https://chieftherapyofficer.co.uk/" rel="nofollow noopener">Chief Therapy Officer</a>, Bryan’s Substack.</li>
<li>  <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanross/" rel="nofollow noopener">Bryan on LinkedIn</a>.</li>
<li>  Coté's <a href="https://cote.pizza/shit-people-say/" rel="nofollow noopener">list of "laws," anecdotes, and common shit people say</a>. See also <a href="https://hacker-laws.com/" rel="nofollow noopener">Hacker Laws</a>.</li>
</ul><p>Special Guest: Bryan Ross.</p>]]>
  </content:encoded>
  <itunes:summary>
    <![CDATA[<p>Bryan Ross is a Field CTO at GitLab, a role he describes as straddling sales, customer success, and solution architecture - or, as one of his customers renamed it, chief therapy officer, which he has since turned into a Substack. Whitney and Coté talk with him about what the job actually looks like: getting catapulted into an account by the sales team, asking a lot of questions, and finding out about four minutes in that the tech problem is a human one. He makes the case that changing job titles - sysadmin, DevOps engineer, platform engineer, now context engineer - is mostly an organization trying to change its culture without knowing how, and that the real difference is mindset: keeping a box alive versus serving one team versus building a product. There’s a long stretch on metrics, including Goodhart’s law, why every metric needs a balancing one, and why he cared more about how many VMs were being decommissioned than how many were being provisioned. Also: whether anyone actually needs to ship faster (Coté’s pharmacy doesn’t), the UK Postal Service discovering that a friendly postman beat a modernized delivery fleet on customer satisfaction, and why copying Google is usually the wrong move. On AI, Bryan’s argument is that it will end up like spreadsheets - a few experts building the macros, everyone else using and lightly tinkering with what they made - and that which model you use should be a finance and data governance decision, not a developer one. Plus the hazard of a nicely formatted report: the pastel-shading trick for spreadsheets nobody will check, and why an AI scoring something 6 out of 10 gets the same unearned benefit of the doubt.</p>

<p>Also, ordering pizza in Amsterdam.</p>

<p>You can watch <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w184M4RtlIU" rel="nofollow noopener">the video version of this episode</a> as well, if you prefer that kind of thing.</p>

<p>Mentions:</p>

<ul>
<li>  <a href="https://bryanross.me/" rel="nofollow noopener">Bryan Ross’s home page on the World Wide Web</a>, which links to everything else.</li>
<li>  <a href="https://chieftherapyofficer.co.uk/" rel="nofollow noopener">Chief Therapy Officer</a>, Bryan’s Substack.</li>
<li>  <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanross/" rel="nofollow noopener">Bryan on LinkedIn</a>.</li>
<li>  Coté's <a href="https://cote.pizza/shit-people-say/" rel="nofollow noopener">list of "laws," anecdotes, and common shit people say</a>. See also <a href="https://hacker-laws.com/" rel="nofollow noopener">Hacker Laws</a>.</li>
</ul><p>Special Guest: Bryan Ross.</p>]]>
  </itunes:summary>
</item>
<item>
  <title>Episode 123: Deming, DevOps History, AI Risk, and Critical Thinking, with John Willis</title>
  <link>https://www.softwaredefinedinterviews.com/123</link>
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  <pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2026 12:00:00 +0200</pubDate>
  <author>Software Defined Talk</author>
  <enclosure url="https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/752ee20c-8e7a-4ce1-8214-0a3fef88215c/8dd9a59d-ac29-4d39-a560-d39f2af295f3.mp3" length="67286037" type="audio/mpeg"/>
  <itunes:episode>123</itunes:episode>
  <itunes:title>Deming, DevOps History, AI Risk, and Critical Thinking, with John Willis</itunes:title>
  <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
  <itunes:author>Software Defined Talk</itunes:author>
  <itunes:subtitle></itunes:subtitle>
  <itunes:duration>1:09:32</itunes:duration>
  <itunes:explicit>yes</itunes:explicit>
  <itunes:image href="https://media24.fireside.fm/file/fireside-images-2024/podcasts/images/7/752ee20c-8e7a-4ce1-8214-0a3fef88215c/episodes/8/8dd9a59d-ac29-4d39-a560-d39f2af295f3/cover.jpg?v=1"/>
  <description>&lt;p&gt;W. Edwards Deming was a physicist, statistician, and quality theorist who taught post-war Japanese manufacturers what eventually became the Toyota Production System - and, decades later, DevOps. John Willis, one of the founders of the DevOps movement and the author of a book on Deming, walks Whitney and Coté through that lineage: Deming's system of profound knowledge (theory of knowledge, variation, psychology, and systems thinking), how it landed at Toyota, and how it threads through Lean software development into modern delivery practice. From there, the conversation turns to what the industry is getting wrong about AI: bragging about K-LOC and token counts instead of value, treating probabilistic systems with old deterministic notions of risk, and forgetting the social-technical lessons we already paid for. Along the way: VC moats and the buy-versus-build conversation inside large organizations, David Foster Wallace's "This is Water" and the ladder of inference, Jevons Paradox and whether AI gets us a three-day work week or a six-day one, and what CS students should be learning besides how to code. Also a brief detour into why John would want fifteen minutes with Bill Clinton.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You can watch &lt;a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIMp05f9d7Y" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;the video version of this episode&lt;/a&gt; as well, if you prefer that kind of thing.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Mentions:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnwillisatlanta/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;John on LinkedIn&lt;/a&gt; - the entry point to his author portal and writing.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;John's book on Deming, &lt;a href="https://itrevolution.com/product/demings-journey-to-profound-knowledge/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;&lt;em&gt;Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;John's book on AI, &lt;a href="https://www.rebelsofreason.com/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;&lt;em&gt;Rebels of Reason&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="https://itrevolution.com/product/the-devops-handbook-second-edition/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;&lt;em&gt;The DevOps Handbook&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;, which John co-authored with Gene Kim, Jez Humble, and Patrick Debois.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Donella Meadows, &lt;a href="https://www.chelseagreen.com/product/thinking-in-systems/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;&lt;em&gt;Thinking in Systems&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Steven Spear, &lt;a href="https://www.mheducation.com/highered/product/high-velocity-edge-spear/9780071741415.html" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;&lt;em&gt;The High-Velocity Edge&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Mary and Tom Poppendieck, &lt;a href="https://www.poppendieck.com/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;&lt;em&gt;Lean Software Development&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;David Foster Wallace, &lt;a href="https://fs.blog/david-foster-wallace-this-is-water/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;"This is Water"&lt;/a&gt; commencement speech.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;The 1980 NBC documentary &lt;a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_Japan_Can..._Why_Can%27t_We%3F" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;&lt;em&gt;If Japan Can, Why Can't We?&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
</description>
  <itunes:keywords>John Willis, W. Edwards Deming, DevOps, history of DevOps, Toyota Production System, Lean software development, system of   profound knowledge, theory of knowledge, AI risk, probabilistic systems, K-LOC, Jevons Paradox, ladder of inference, David   Foster Wallace, This is Water, critical thinking, venture capital, buy versus build, DevOps Handbook, Rebels of Reason,   Gene Kim, Mary Poppendieck, Donella Meadows</itunes:keywords>
  <content:encoded>
    <![CDATA[<p>W. Edwards Deming was a physicist, statistician, and quality theorist who taught post-war Japanese manufacturers what eventually became the Toyota Production System - and, decades later, DevOps. John Willis, one of the founders of the DevOps movement and the author of a book on Deming, walks Whitney and Coté through that lineage: Deming's system of profound knowledge (theory of knowledge, variation, psychology, and systems thinking), how it landed at Toyota, and how it threads through Lean software development into modern delivery practice. From there, the conversation turns to what the industry is getting wrong about AI: bragging about K-LOC and token counts instead of value, treating probabilistic systems with old deterministic notions of risk, and forgetting the social-technical lessons we already paid for. Along the way: VC moats and the buy-versus-build conversation inside large organizations, David Foster Wallace's "This is Water" and the ladder of inference, Jevons Paradox and whether AI gets us a three-day work week or a six-day one, and what CS students should be learning besides how to code. Also a brief detour into why John would want fifteen minutes with Bill Clinton.</p>

<p>You can watch <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIMp05f9d7Y" rel="nofollow noopener">the video version of this episode</a> as well, if you prefer that kind of thing.</p>

<p>Mentions:</p>

<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnwillisatlanta/" rel="nofollow noopener">John on LinkedIn</a> - the entry point to his author portal and writing.</li>
<li>John's book on Deming, <a href="https://itrevolution.com/product/demings-journey-to-profound-knowledge/" rel="nofollow noopener"><em>Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge</em></a>.</li>
<li>John's book on AI, <a href="https://www.rebelsofreason.com/" rel="nofollow noopener"><em>Rebels of Reason</em></a>.</li>
<li><a href="https://itrevolution.com/product/the-devops-handbook-second-edition/" rel="nofollow noopener"><em>The DevOps Handbook</em></a>, which John co-authored with Gene Kim, Jez Humble, and Patrick Debois.</li>
<li>Donella Meadows, <a href="https://www.chelseagreen.com/product/thinking-in-systems/" rel="nofollow noopener"><em>Thinking in Systems</em></a>.</li>
<li>Steven Spear, <a href="https://www.mheducation.com/highered/product/high-velocity-edge-spear/9780071741415.html" rel="nofollow noopener"><em>The High-Velocity Edge</em></a>.</li>
<li>Mary and Tom Poppendieck, <a href="https://www.poppendieck.com/" rel="nofollow noopener"><em>Lean Software Development</em></a>.</li>
<li>David Foster Wallace, <a href="https://fs.blog/david-foster-wallace-this-is-water/" rel="nofollow noopener">"This is Water"</a> commencement speech.</li>
<li>The 1980 NBC documentary <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_Japan_Can..._Why_Can%27t_We%3F" rel="nofollow noopener"><em>If Japan Can, Why Can't We?</em></a>.</li>
</ul>]]>
  </content:encoded>
  <itunes:summary>
    <![CDATA[<p>W. Edwards Deming was a physicist, statistician, and quality theorist who taught post-war Japanese manufacturers what eventually became the Toyota Production System - and, decades later, DevOps. John Willis, one of the founders of the DevOps movement and the author of a book on Deming, walks Whitney and Coté through that lineage: Deming's system of profound knowledge (theory of knowledge, variation, psychology, and systems thinking), how it landed at Toyota, and how it threads through Lean software development into modern delivery practice. From there, the conversation turns to what the industry is getting wrong about AI: bragging about K-LOC and token counts instead of value, treating probabilistic systems with old deterministic notions of risk, and forgetting the social-technical lessons we already paid for. Along the way: VC moats and the buy-versus-build conversation inside large organizations, David Foster Wallace's "This is Water" and the ladder of inference, Jevons Paradox and whether AI gets us a three-day work week or a six-day one, and what CS students should be learning besides how to code. Also a brief detour into why John would want fifteen minutes with Bill Clinton.</p>

<p>You can watch <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIMp05f9d7Y" rel="nofollow noopener">the video version of this episode</a> as well, if you prefer that kind of thing.</p>

<p>Mentions:</p>

<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnwillisatlanta/" rel="nofollow noopener">John on LinkedIn</a> - the entry point to his author portal and writing.</li>
<li>John's book on Deming, <a href="https://itrevolution.com/product/demings-journey-to-profound-knowledge/" rel="nofollow noopener"><em>Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge</em></a>.</li>
<li>John's book on AI, <a href="https://www.rebelsofreason.com/" rel="nofollow noopener"><em>Rebels of Reason</em></a>.</li>
<li><a href="https://itrevolution.com/product/the-devops-handbook-second-edition/" rel="nofollow noopener"><em>The DevOps Handbook</em></a>, which John co-authored with Gene Kim, Jez Humble, and Patrick Debois.</li>
<li>Donella Meadows, <a href="https://www.chelseagreen.com/product/thinking-in-systems/" rel="nofollow noopener"><em>Thinking in Systems</em></a>.</li>
<li>Steven Spear, <a href="https://www.mheducation.com/highered/product/high-velocity-edge-spear/9780071741415.html" rel="nofollow noopener"><em>The High-Velocity Edge</em></a>.</li>
<li>Mary and Tom Poppendieck, <a href="https://www.poppendieck.com/" rel="nofollow noopener"><em>Lean Software Development</em></a>.</li>
<li>David Foster Wallace, <a href="https://fs.blog/david-foster-wallace-this-is-water/" rel="nofollow noopener">"This is Water"</a> commencement speech.</li>
<li>The 1980 NBC documentary <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_Japan_Can..._Why_Can%27t_We%3F" rel="nofollow noopener"><em>If Japan Can, Why Can't We?</em></a>.</li>
</ul>]]>
  </itunes:summary>
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