web02.fireside.fm Sat, 06 Jun 2026 14:32:41 -0500 Fireside (https://fireside.fm) Software Defined Interviews - Episodes Tagged with “Critical Thinking” https://www.softwaredefinedinterviews.com/tags/critical%20thinking Sat, 06 Jun 2026 12:00:00 +0200 Deep discussions about technology, enterprise IT, and the like en-us episodic Deep discussions about technology, enterprise IT, and the like Software Defined Talk Deep discussions about technology, enterprise IT, and the like yes Software Defined Talk softwaredefinedinterviews@cote.wtf Episode 123: Deming, DevOps History, AI Risk, and Critical Thinking, with John Willis https://www.softwaredefinedinterviews.com/123 8dd9a59d-ac29-4d39-a560-d39f2af295f3 Sat, 06 Jun 2026 12:00:00 +0200 Software Defined Talk 123 Deming, DevOps History, AI Risk, and Critical Thinking, with John Willis full Software Defined Talk 1:09:32 yes <p>W. Edwards Deming was a physicist, statistician, and quality theorist who taught post-war Japanese manufacturers what eventually became the Toyota Production System - and, decades later, DevOps. John Willis, one of the founders of the DevOps movement and the author of a book on Deming, walks Whitney and Coté through that lineage: Deming's system of profound knowledge (theory of knowledge, variation, psychology, and systems thinking), how it landed at Toyota, and how it threads through Lean software development into modern delivery practice. From there, the conversation turns to what the industry is getting wrong about AI: bragging about K-LOC and token counts instead of value, treating probabilistic systems with old deterministic notions of risk, and forgetting the social-technical lessons we already paid for. Along the way: VC moats and the buy-versus-build conversation inside large organizations, David Foster Wallace's "This is Water" and the ladder of inference, Jevons Paradox and whether AI gets us a three-day work week or a six-day one, and what CS students should be learning besides how to code. Also a brief detour into why John would want fifteen minutes with Bill Clinton.</p> <p>You can watch <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIMp05f9d7Y" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">the video version of this episode</a> as well, if you prefer that kind of thing.</p> <p>Mentions:</p> <ul> <li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnwillisatlanta/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">John on LinkedIn</a> - the entry point to his author portal and writing.</li> <li>John's book on Deming, <a href="https://itrevolution.com/product/demings-journey-to-profound-knowledge/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"><em>Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge</em></a>.</li> <li>John's book on AI, <a href="https://www.rebelsofreason.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"><em>Rebels of Reason</em></a>.</li> <li><a href="https://itrevolution.com/product/the-devops-handbook-second-edition/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"><em>The DevOps Handbook</em></a>, which John co-authored with Gene Kim, Jez Humble, and Patrick Debois.</li> <li>Donella Meadows, <a href="https://www.chelseagreen.com/product/thinking-in-systems/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"><em>Thinking in Systems</em></a>.</li> <li>Steven Spear, <a href="https://www.mheducation.com/highered/product/high-velocity-edge-spear/9780071741415.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"><em>The High-Velocity Edge</em></a>.</li> <li>Mary and Tom Poppendieck, <a href="https://www.poppendieck.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"><em>Lean Software Development</em></a>.</li> <li>David Foster Wallace, <a href="https://fs.blog/david-foster-wallace-this-is-water/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">"This is Water"</a> commencement speech.</li> <li>The 1980 NBC documentary <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_Japan_Can..._Why_Can%27t_We%3F" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"><em>If Japan Can, Why Can't We?</em></a>.</li> </ul> John Willis, W. Edwards Deming, DevOps, history of DevOps, Toyota Production System, Lean software development, system of profound knowledge, theory of knowledge, AI risk, probabilistic systems, K-LOC, Jevons Paradox, ladder of inference, David Foster Wallace, This is Water, critical thinking, venture capital, buy versus build, DevOps Handbook, Rebels of Reason, Gene Kim, Mary Poppendieck, Donella Meadows W. Edwards Deming was a physicist, statistician, and quality theorist who taught post-war Japanese manufacturers what eventually became the Toyota Production System - and, decades later, DevOps. John Willis, one of the founders of the DevOps movement and the author of a book on Deming, walks Whitney and Coté through that lineage: Deming's system of profound knowledge (theory of knowledge, variation, psychology, and systems thinking), how it landed at Toyota, and how it threads through Lean software development into modern delivery practice. From there, the conversation turns to what the industry is getting wrong about AI: bragging about K-LOC and token counts instead of value, treating probabilistic systems with old deterministic notions of risk, and forgetting the social-technical lessons we already paid for. Along the way: VC moats and the buy-versus-build conversation inside large organizations, David Foster Wallace's "This is Water" and the ladder of inference, Jevons Paradox and whether AI gets us a three-day work week or a six-day one, and what CS students should be learning besides how to code. Also a brief detour into why John would want fifteen minutes with Bill Clinton.

You can watch the video version of this episode as well, if you prefer that kind of thing.

Mentions:

]]> W. Edwards Deming was a physicist, statistician, and quality theorist who taught post-war Japanese manufacturers what eventually became the Toyota Production System - and, decades later, DevOps. John Willis, one of the founders of the DevOps movement and the author of a book on Deming, walks Whitney and Coté through that lineage: Deming's system of profound knowledge (theory of knowledge, variation, psychology, and systems thinking), how it landed at Toyota, and how it threads through Lean software development into modern delivery practice. From there, the conversation turns to what the industry is getting wrong about AI: bragging about K-LOC and token counts instead of value, treating probabilistic systems with old deterministic notions of risk, and forgetting the social-technical lessons we already paid for. Along the way: VC moats and the buy-versus-build conversation inside large organizations, David Foster Wallace's "This is Water" and the ladder of inference, Jevons Paradox and whether AI gets us a three-day work week or a six-day one, and what CS students should be learning besides how to code. Also a brief detour into why John would want fifteen minutes with Bill Clinton.

You can watch the video version of this episode as well, if you prefer that kind of thing.

Mentions:

]]>